i am not, and never have been, a jw.
i spent my career (30 years) fighting bullies.
is wtbts and its subsidiaries (not talking about individual jws here) a bullying organisation?.
I am not, and never have been, a JW. I spent my career (30 years) fighting bullies. Is WTBTS and its subsidiaries (not talking about individual JWs here) a bullying organisation?
I think I know the answer to this question, from what I have read here - but I would like to hear your answers.
Thanks.
excuse my ignorance, and i've read on boards about the us not selling/inviting contributions issue, but do individuals jws in effect pay for the publications they give out?
if so, is that only for their magazines or for hardback books as well?
how is this organised, please?.
Thanks for the info. I was prompted to ask it because of the books etc. given to me by my neighbours, which I have considered returning (if I can think of a way to do it without causing offence).
But I went on to think - if the road to glory for JWs is going out and 'placing' publications, and seeing that JWs seem to be most active in developing countries (or at least the less rich ones) and they seem to attract (perhaps) the less well-off or successful recruits, this may be quite a financial burden for some individual JWs?
excuse my ignorance, and i've read on boards about the us not selling/inviting contributions issue, but do individuals jws in effect pay for the publications they give out?
if so, is that only for their magazines or for hardback books as well?
how is this organised, please?.
Excuse my ignorance, and I've read on boards about the US not selling/inviting contributions issue, but do individuals JWs in effect pay for the publications they give out? If so, is that only for their magazines or for hardback books as well? How is this organised, please?
Thanks.
i posted a while ago that i had asked the aust bethel for my personal records under the privacy act 1988. bethel refused.
i then lodged a complaint with the privacy commission.
bethel signed a stat dec that they are not covered by the privacy act, and so the case was closed.
Hamilton, the site you need for UK information is: http://www.ico.gov.uk/eventual.aspx
It's now called the 'Information Commissioner's Office'.
I did a quick search for the JW's registration under 'Watchtower' and 'Jehovah' - the only result was 'Watchtower Investments Ltd' which I would guess is the UK overall financial arm of the JWs. (It would be possible to do an online search of Companies House records for them, it might cost a couple of pounds, but would give you names of directors, accounts and all sorts of useful stuff).
As far as I can see, there is no exemption for religions. In fact in the 'myths and facts' bit of the site it raises the question of a priest giving out personal data by praying during a service for someone who is sick. The answer given is NOT that clergy are exempt but that the personal data about the individual is not likely to be held in searchable personal records.
Hope this helps, and I hope somebody might pick up this ball and run with it!
i posted a while ago that i had asked the aust bethel for my personal records under the privacy act 1988. bethel refused.
i then lodged a complaint with the privacy commission.
bethel signed a stat dec that they are not covered by the privacy act, and so the case was closed.
Reply to Hamilton: AFAIK, the UK Freedom of Info Act applies only to government departments, local authorities, police, etc. BUT the Data Protection Act applies to any organisation, company, etc., that keeps 'searchable' personal data (whether in computer or written form) on individuals. Never been a JW but from what I've read the records they keep would certainly fall into this category.
Any organisation, company, authority, etc., that wants to keep such info must register with the office of the Data Protection Registrar and specify such things as what data they want to keep, what use they will make of it, who they will share it with, how long they will retain it, etc. There are also rules about not using it for unspecified purposes and so one. The purpose behind this is so that anyone considering giving personal data can check to see how their data will be used, etc., and the Register is open to the public.
I don't know (but I'm sure others on this board do) what the legal position of JW groups is. If each congregation is a separate legal 'entity' (and I assume if, for example, they hold the deeds to their premises then they must be) each congregation would have to register separately. More likely, there would be an 'umbrella' registration on behalf of WTBTS (UK) or whatever the overall UK organisation is.
Under the legislation it is an offence to fail to register, to use data other than in accordance with the registration, and any individual has the right to ask the company/organisation what data is held about them and how it has been used. Failure to comply with a request is an offence.
AFAIK, JW organisations would not be exempt from this legislation.
You have sparked an interest, and I will research further.
i mentioned recently that i belong to a pro-jehovah's witness forum and how they were having internal problems requiring the lockdown of a thread for a 24 hour cooling period.
someone on the forum admitted that it caused their posting to drop.
now, they are beset with another problem.
In my very limited knowledge of JWs (from the outside) it seems to me that the internet with its research capabilities is the biggest threat faced by WTBTS.
It also appears that their strongest areas are in developing countries, or at least not the most developed ones, and perhaps amongst less privileged people who are less likely to have access to the net. If this is correct, is it coincidence?
having visited this site on many occasions, and having been recommended to it, i am confident that it is a source of good advice from people who know about these things.
i would be grateful for any advice you can offer me.. i have been an atheist for 20+ years, but before that was a non-conformist protestant with degrees of belief varying from acceptance to enthusiasm.
my atheism resulted from research because of my (continuing) interest in the effects of religion.
Thanks again for your further replies.
Thinking about it further, there has been a lot less contact from them since the memorial service, after which I also asked them if they wanted their books back (they had given me a copy of the NWT Bible, 'All Scriptures, and a couple more about 'Creation' etc.). I don't know what the JW term is for somebody who has been shown the way to their 'truth' and rejects it (I'm sure they have a term for it) but whatever it is, I am one.
BTW, do JWs who hand out these books have to pay for them personally, or are they paid for by the local group? I have never been asked for 'contributions' for these or the (too many) magazines they used to give me - none recently.
having visited this site on many occasions, and having been recommended to it, i am confident that it is a source of good advice from people who know about these things.
i would be grateful for any advice you can offer me.. i have been an atheist for 20+ years, but before that was a non-conformist protestant with degrees of belief varying from acceptance to enthusiasm.
my atheism resulted from research because of my (continuing) interest in the effects of religion.
Thanks very much to all for the welcome, advice, and the kind comments, which have made me blush.
One of the concerns I had was that I had read that zealous JWs/WTBTS regularly monitored sites such as this. It's for this reason I have had to avoid giving too much detail, to avoid identification of the family concerned.
Thanks again.
having visited this site on many occasions, and having been recommended to it, i am confident that it is a source of good advice from people who know about these things.
i would be grateful for any advice you can offer me.. i have been an atheist for 20+ years, but before that was a non-conformist protestant with degrees of belief varying from acceptance to enthusiasm.
my atheism resulted from research because of my (continuing) interest in the effects of religion.
Having visited this site on many occasions, and having been recommended to it, I am confident that it is a source of good advice from people who know about these things. I would be grateful for any advice you can offer me.
I have been an atheist for 20+ years, but before that was a non-conformist protestant with degrees of belief varying from acceptance to enthusiasm. My atheism resulted from research because of my (continuing) interest in the effects of religion. I had done research into cults (including JWs) many years ago, and my recent renewed research with the benefit of the Interenet has only confirmed my cynicsm. I am a middle-aged man, naturally sceptic, and it's worth pointing out here that there is no danger of me being drawn into the JWs.
My issue is this. Last year I moved to a completely new area. My new neighbours are a young family with two small children (one has just started school, one is pre-school). The parents are very strong JWs, the wife being from a JW background, the husband a convert to it. Both are very active on door-to-door work (taking the children with them), the husband seems to perform minor assistant works at their meetings, etc. The older child is already proudly quoting Bible verses (one from Psalms, I think, about the name 'Jehovah') and telling me that her dad is a 'pioneer'.
I enjoy discussing religious issues (with anybody) especially my views on what I see as the 'invention of Pauline Christianity', and have done so with them several times. On a couple of occasions I went with them to their Sunday morning services out of interest (having read much about them but never seen them in action). I was taken aback by the formulaic nature, the complete adherence to the magazine outline, and the lack of any discussion, etc. To be honest, there were several people attending who obviously were not very familiar with English and yet struggled to get out a few-word answer to questions and seemed very proud to have done so. To be honest, I found it hard at times to keep a straight face. Afterwards, I was introduced to a few men (elders I would guess) and invited to dinner etc. at some future time (which I managed to avoid with vague 'busy plans' etc.
I also went recently with this couple to their passover/memorial service. My motivation was mainly interest but there was also, I must confess, a little bit of devilment in wanting to ask people questions about the 'anointed' etc. I also reckoned (rightly or not, I don't know) that the couple might get some 'brownie points' by taking a 'potential recruit' with them. I did ask a few innocent questions of some of the (I suspect) outside afterwards - like why there were no 'anointed' in their service and whether JWs had an overall list of all the anointed, etc. - but got little response, and they seemed a bit less interested in me than previously. I was wearing jeans and smoking a cigarette at the time.
My problem is this. Whilst I am aware of 'love-bombing' etc. I think that this couple are genuinely nice people and really good neighbours. For example, a few months ago I was laid quite low with a cold/flu and couldn't be bothered to even go out to the shops (I live alone). They called round a couple of times to check I was OK, brought hot meals, even offered to do my washing for me! I would hate to cause offence to them, and have explained politely that I cannot accept their religion even on the grounds of looking at its own literature, history, organisation, etc., and that I am an atheist with views on various basic tenets of all religions, let alone the Christian and Christain-derived ones. I have also suggested to them that if they continue to socialise with me they may have issues with their congregation who would, I am sure, see me as a 'bad association'. They seem to be quite happy to remain friends, inviting me for meals, etc.
The other concern I have is for their children. Having read so many heart-rending stories on here and elsewhere of some with JW childhoods my heart breaks a little for the children, especially the elder. I know that already she has had problems in school (schools in this area are very mainstream religion influenced), with Christmas, Mother's Day, etc. (her Mum told me this at great length and seemed to be proud of what the child was suffering for the sake of her religion). The children noticeably do not have friends to play with.
Having got this far, I'm not quite sure what specific advice I'm asking for. I suppose its this. If I continue friendship with this couple, could it lead to trouble for them within JWs? They like to raise religious questions, and while I tone down my responses I cannot either pretend to accept what they say or fail to respond to what I see as factual discrepancies. On one occasion I went for dinner at their house, they had another couple present who are very active JWs, ex-Bethel (luckily I had shortly before found out what that was) so I made sure I steered clear of anything contentious.
Part of me says that I should politely steer clear of them and that their friendship is a means to an end (i.e. converting the unbeliever). I have no misapprehensions that anything I could say to them or show them would cause them to doubt their faith - it may only cause them turmoil. But the other part says that these are nice people.
Is this sort of story familiar to anyone? Sorry for the length of this posting. All comments gratefully received.
national public radio this morning had a story about a study of middle-aged (55-64 yo) whites in the uk compred to the us.
they were shocked at the results.
the study was done to try to find out the effects of poverty on health , which is why they just studied whites, to eliminate the effects of race.
This is how the BBC reported it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4965034.stm
